"Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments.
Alexander Hamilton

Thursday, June 5, 2014

Moultonboro Village Vision Committee June 3rd 2014

There is some frustration expressed by the VVC committee members beginning at about one hour 30 minutes in. It was a long meeting with a lot of new information to digest especially around the water and sewage issues  after a presentation from the town engineer on the subject.
There was discussion of the need for a more formalized approach and having an outline of the process and not making progress. Having an endpoint in mind would allow the committee to work backwards from that point.
Town Planner Bruce Woodruff has done a good job feeding ideas and information to the committee , but standing back  so the committee can come to it's  own conclusions. He suggested a two pronged approach where information gathering and project planning can occur concurrently. Chairman Bickford is also doing a good job trying to keep things moving forward and orderly. All the committee members are working very hard to complete the task they have volunteered to do. But.....I did hear a number of comments that it was hard to know what to do when you don't know where you are going. I have always approached projects with the end point in mind. Once that's established you can figure out the steps needed to get there. I would urge the committee to follow the direction offered by Joanne Coppinger to think about the end point and then create an outline to get there.
As the committee did in defining the boundaries of the village, why not an exercise in creating a visual of the village that the committee can agree upon? Draw it out on a white board and get a picture to refer to as they go forward.
As Yogi Berra once said: "If you don't know where you're going, you might not get there."



Anonymous said...

Points noted by Joanne Coppinger re: creation of an outline and endpoint are well taken.

I was surprised to hear that no notes of items discussed at the Village Vision meetings are taken. This in itself is a major deterrent for encouraging participation by residents, landowners, taxpayers, etc.

Bull Loney said...

Another committee amongst many committees that are just wandering about.
We should have all of these various committees meet at the Taylor farmhouse that the town just purchased with taxpayer money. So that we can get some use out of this historic building before it is torn down.

Free parking said...

Parking is mentioned as a problem for village growth, but is it? Today, driving east along RT 25 , I looked at each property in the village zone. Most of the businesses have ample parking, although for some, it is in the back. Artie's looks like it has a problem, but has a nice lot behind it - unclear who owns that.

Anonymous said...

Huge parking lot at library and municipal complex.

Citizen Jane said...

Pretty sure the church owns the lot behind Artie's.

Trash It... said...

Municipal and Library Parking. At times, the library functions can fill most of that parking. That is an attractive parking lot, and functional. It even has a taste of the getto, with the portable basketball hoop thrown down in the dirt. I suppose we will have to look at that, till we build her the palace.

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

Most of us agree that there must be foresight, if not a vision, for the community.

Doesn't the Master plan statute, somewhere, suggest review every 5-7years (doesn't say re-do) if my memory isn't failing me. Doesn't mean don't go out further. But ...

However, when topics like water and sewer are discussed ... think town meeting and what would be the driving force. Business maybe or residents or ...?

The "elephant in the room" might be POA's, property owner's associations!

How many voters at Suissevale or Balmoral! Are there hidden agendas? Suissevale has its own water supply, does it not.

Are those individual septic systems causing concern and it would be nice for the town to take over?

Those POA's are in one part of town that the "Neck" folks aren't too concerned about. Likewise, I'm sure, the Neck isn't of great concern for Rt.109 folks, other than bringing in tax revenue and tourism/recreation.

Might as well put behavioral science into the Village Vision mix.

Aren't the POA's RSA 292 corporations? Probably, or should be. Does that complicate things?

I'm in the West Point of Long Island Association, obviously on Long Island, and the Neck road is how we get there. Most on this side of town (not village)hardly ever go to "the village" except to vote or to go to a BoS meeting and harass the BoS.

Our POA is an RSA 292 corp. and our community water is from Lakes Region Water Company. Some have their own wells. We have nowhere near the number POA members of Balmoral or Suissevale.

Does anyone really think this part of town would vote for water and sewer in the other part of town ... and not want it as well?

You should think litigation!

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the reason there is no end point is that there is no overall agreement on what the village should be. A very large group feels strongly that the town should not be remade into something that it isn't. People supporting this view have made their position clear in various surveys, the results of which are frequently ignored. Another group is dedicated to making substantial changes such as sidewalks, property acquisitions, rec centers, etc. All of these projects are very costly by themselves and also require expensive new infrastructure such as water and waste water treatment facilities.

It is very doubtful if there can be agreement on the "endpoint" as evidenced by the tie vote on sidewalks. The extremely challenging task before the committee is to bridge the huge distance between these opposing views. Somehow, the committee needs to come up with some solution that most of us can support.

Some proper "Poop" said...

Joe, You dumped a big bucket there. Don't lump Balmoral and Swissvale together.. Swissvale allowed enough land per home to support septic. The housing density at Balmoral is more difficult. Someone has to lead the town in the right sequence of events...not just a " feel good " agenda. Before any system is considered up town, where it is not yet needed, we must look at areas where septic tanks are in distress and not working to today's standards. A contaminated plume out of Shannon Brook hurts the milfoil effort, and would halt swimming at States Landing Beach. First, we must evaluate the water quality issue.

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

The only lumping of Balmoral and Suissevale are that they are Property Owner Associations, ... just as West Point is ... and the many, many, others that are subject to NH Law; Balmoral and Suissevale just happen to be the "biggest", presently in MoBo.

"Swissvale allowed enough land per home to support septic ..."

Today's argument might be ... who allowed that housing density in our pretty little village?

Their individual rules and planning are not the issue.

"Someone has to lead the town in the right sequence of events...not just a " feel good " agenda. Before any system is considered up town, where it is not yet needed, we must look at areas where septic tanks are in distress and not working to today's standards."

Who might that/those luminary/luminaries be?

If septic systems are distressed and causing damage, who owns them? Why aren't they being fixed by the owners?

That will give a hint to responsibility and liability.

How many septic systems does MoBo own? Who owns the ordinances and state law? Who owns the liabilities?

Maybe the town should hire more folks to inspect/enforce current law, and less effort on futile committees! Job creation that will benefit us all (he says semi-togue-in-cheek)

"Contaminated plume" out of Shannon Brook..." What kind of contamination ... natural ...a past Master Plan?

Milfoil ... another state/town issue altogether ... and who should pay for it.

Was States Landing Beach just "cleaned-up" and might be dredged because there's anticipation of water problems. That's town property is it not?

Another vision?

As stated previously ... think litigation.

So Many Questions... said...

Joe, ihave no idea how to respondTo that long list full of question marks.. You need a sense of history, to see how evolving rules are changing the game, with some folks caught, cause they can't afford the correction.
Maybe I will just get out the shovel, and bury all your thoughts and ??? Works for the town.....

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

"Joe, ihave no idea ..."

No problem ... you're not alone!

Is anyone forcing you (another question, if you can handled it).

"You need a sense of history, to see how evolving rules are changing the game.."

No, I have a sense of legal issues!

"Maybe I will just get out the shovel,..."

Sounds like a plan! BS isn't much against a subpoena!

Anonymous said...

Joe, once again you have managed to take a thread off on a wild tangent that in this instance has nothing to do with the original question of how the committee can find a reasonable endpoint.

Please try and stay focused on the main topic.

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

Sewers and water ... not part of the video ... !!!???

Get real or grow up! There's enough sewage flowing!

Folks that cannot debate ... let alone present facts ... choose to attack individuals.

Have a nice day, anyway!