"Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments.
Alexander Hamilton

Saturday, June 28, 2014

States Landing Cost Estimates

Note: There is much work to be done to determine the future of this property. As an individual Selectman I fully support improving the area, but I do have many questions. Whether over time the town decides to do all or part of what has been proposed has yet to be decided. Personally, I like the idea of a family oriented park roughly as described by Doug Grenier, the landscape architect with the focus on the beach for swimming and the launch for boats. In my opinion, the property is a town asset in the rough. The numbers below are steep in total, but they are not cast in stone. Many options for improvement are still open for discussion.


Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

How many people are projected to use the proposed property ... do I hear 30; ... inflated number subject to conjecture!

How about someone giving us ... $/taxpayer use.

Might be more moose than tax payers!

A million and half dollars for how many town taxpayers?

Another feel good exercise ... or some hidden agenda?

Move the proposed Gym there, and let it sink into the muck.

Are we still concerned with the aging population? They're very concerned with gyms, that they'll need; you know ... the two step shuffle (I'm allowed; I'm elderly ... though not old).

Maybe a floating bingo game from the new boat launch!

Are Suissevale and Balmoral running out of beach space?

How many complaints have been registered with the Town for appropriations to clean-up the property. Are they all from the Rec. department?

WOW. Need More Taxes.. said...

Add up the rec dollar " needs " and it comes to four times what the CIPC wants to spend for year for the entire towns capital budget... Rec needs this beach, $ 1.5 mil, rec needs its own gym, a minimum of $ 3.5 mil, and rec says they can get our federal government to require we rebuild the playground drive Baseball Diamond, $ half million. The B O S will sing their old dodge, send it to town meeting...let the voters decide...all 250 of them..
All forget that last years Master Plan update had 700 responses, and by a 2 to 1 margin said no more land for rec, no more buildings for rec. Why won't they listen, and act ?

Grumpy said...

They didn't listen to the BRC nor did they listen to the Dangerous Intersection Committee why should anyone listen to the public when the elites know better?

Anonymous said...

I am not a big spender, and I oppose the huge dollars the rec. dept. has on its list to fulfill its "needs". However, since we already own the States Landing beach area, and since we only have one other town beach, does it not make sense to maintain it so it can be used and enjoyed by many? Make it clean and safe.

Fox Hollow Fixed ? said...

Grumpy... Do not underestimate the dangerous intersection study. It is a poster child for state and local incompetence.. Fox Hollow was # 7 on the list, but jumped to # 1 when a local realator told town hall he could get the state to pay for it...D O T owed him a faver.
Based on this, ourLiL ole poor town went ahead with Engineering Drawings, and some disasterous land procurement attempts...we spent near $ 250,000 engineering...then the State comes in...BOS exits...says the state is going to do what it's going to do, and we have no knowlege or control. BOS only concern was for the female state engineer that sat in the field office all winter. " what is she doing ?" Probably burning our plans in the woodstove, to keep warm.. So the state dumps another $ million $ and gives us an unworkable wide spot in the road, striped to prevent shoulder passing, and only used by the red and white license plate cars with a death wish.
Ask the town if the state is finished?? Answer is " we don't know, it's the state ". Our money, but no attempt at accountability.. A million and a quarter, and a failure for the end goal...Yep, a poster child.

Get Practical.. said...

YES. It makes good sense to clean up States Landing for swimming.. To make it practical, clean and affordable you just have to put a lid on the Town Administrator, who is a great fan of city parks. Singlehanded, he is " Moult Mission Creep." From a local meeting of concerned volunteers ..35 area vols, he takes away a list of 35 different ideas on what the beach needs. At this point, the BOS should be intervening with some practicality..but it is yet to happen...So we get a $ 200,000 pavilion, Horse shoe pits, a kiddy wading pool, a life grad office, a kids playground, volley ball, picnic tables, teather ball, boat ramp. Barbecue pits.....AND --- all the environmental green stuff...like " rain gardens ". They used to be called dry wells when they were cheaper.. If this thing is going to fly, the BOS needs to stop the city park approach.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Fox Hollow: we were flabbergasted to see that, after all the construction, THERE IS NO LEFT TURN LANE!!! there was a major traffic tie-up for weeks, and this is the result???

Anonymous said...

Joe, State Landing is a beehive of activity during the summer. It's the only public beach on this side of town. The boat launch is epecially busy on the weekends and helps take some of the burden off Long Island and Lee's Mills. States Landing also attracts lots of kayakers.

Citizen Jane said...

I do think fixing up States Landing is a good idea for the town. But "fixing up" is a far cry from some of the items I see listed.

I don't think "trails", "picnic sites" (OK, a few tables, sure), "volleyball court" (put up a net already: good to go), and "walkway" among other things are called for.

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

The difficulty I'm having is COST without supporting background data or info.

Are we supposed to believe the Rec. Dept. or town admin is well versed in these arenas? If so, present the findings ... needs to be better than ... I THINK"!

I'm inclined to agree that since States Landing is a town property it should be in shape that is accommodating to the taxpayers and their guests. Not the public!
The boat launch could be a separate debate.

This is in recognition to the proximity of Suissevale and Balmoral, and they are private POA's, that impact usage or non-usage.

My "beef" is supposed cost, without documentation outlining cost. I mean competitive bids with line item estimates published to the taxpayers.

I'm all for trails, horseshoe pits, volleyball courts etc. ... BUTT, to the tune of $95,000!! You've got to be kidding.

$158,000 for Rain Gardens ... in the middle of pristine property! Oh Ya ... need to "green" the area!

Why do "trails," picnic sites", and "walkways" show up in several line places ... attempt to mystify cost and expect MoBo voters can't read.

Dredging: Half million dollars!

Just a quick Google gives a place to start and get bids; presumably already done (maybe). Is the half million dolars a guesstimate? Publish the bids and why the choice!




NH DES says the waters is clean!



Slush fund ...

I'm not saying this looks like a "slush fund" ... but(one T) ...


Anonymous said...

Re States Landing:I'm all for doing what it takes to make the beach and water clean and safe. I am against socking it to the waterfront taxpayer for items that are not essential. Buy your own volleyball equipment. Bring your own portable barbecue grill. And yes...do not forget to clean up your own mess before leaving!

Grumpy said...

States Landing: Citizen Jane has it right. The place is used a lot and needs a fix-up but we don't need Central Park or Disney-Carter World.
Fox Hollow: They (NH-DOT) did the same gutless crap they attempted with the right turn at Green's Corner a few years ago... "don't make a legal lane but make it wide enough to use as one". Concord Bureaucrats never FIX and issue; they just halfway do it. It saves them catching hell when some gets killed there.

Flipper said...

Agree with Grumpy and Citizen Jane. We are frequent visitors to the beach and appreciate the clean up. Forget horseshoes, volley ball and all the other games. Picnic tables would be great but for us it's all about a nice beach, access to the lake and clean water to swim in.

Anonymous said...

As I understand it, the professional hired for the study is a landscape architect. The proposed items pretty much fall in line with what a landscape architect does...i.e., a person that plans and designs gardens and outdoor spaces... I agree with Citizen Jane that this is not entirely what is needed here. The priority would be a clean beach and swimming in a sandy-bottomed area.

The dredging study/recommendations should be undertaken by a limnologist, a person who is experienced with assessing and making recommendations re: lakes, water quality, and associated ecology. Anybody else making recommendations would be guessing...

Also agree with the comment re: rain gardens. The whole lake is one big rain garden!

Back To Basics..Please said...

Our long time landscape archetect is a very nice guy, fun to work with. He is from the Alton area. He is NOT in charge of this project. He gets his direction from the Town Administrator. The town administrator has done his usual dog and pony show. His favorite sstatement is that " we have a highly involved and intellegent citizen base " and must involve them to get anything done. So we had the public involvement, during the States Landing cleanup day, and 35 people voiced 35 different ideas on what to do with the swimming hole. 35 happy people....had an imput. NOW here is where it falls apart.. It should go to the BOS at this point, for a practicality check, but instead the TA sends it to The landscape guy..and then it is in a proposed drawing, and the only way out will be " send it to the Annual Town Meeting ". This gives us poor choices..either buy into the Town Administrators idea for a city park, or turn it down, which is a shame, as most would back a practical solution here.
This is a plea for the BOS to take ownership of this asset, and do right by it. It should be water centered, not an amusement park.

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

Do we actually need another study about the water and ecology?

The NH DES says the water is more than fine.

The complaint, apparently by all, is the "muck" on the bottom.

Solution ... remove muck in a cost conscious manner. Don't need a PhD. to determine if the muck is removed!

Don't tell anybody about putting sand in there (winter/summer) to finish the job.


Anonymous said...

I cannot remember any required dredging of Long Island Beach. Does anyone reading this blog know?

Are the inherent characteristics of State's Landing Beach causing deposition of "muck"?

How often will State's Landing Beach need to be dredged or, put another way, what's the rate of yearly accumulation of muck?

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

Another question might be ...Does muck accumulate when there is active use?

What's muck?


Introducing Matt ... or is it mat?