"Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments.
Alexander Hamilton

Thursday, July 31, 2014

Village Vision Committee Village Walk and Meeting July 29th 2014

As I combined the video clips of the village walk, a few pieces were mixed up and show up during parts of the VVC meeting at Town Hall which occurred later.



Behind Your Back said...

This video opens on a site tour, with our planning board chairman pointing out a good area for a walkway, off Rt 25, behind the post office, from Sutherland Park to the apartments in the yellow buildings on Rt 25. This was also pushed by citizens at the four sidewalk meetings, where we were told we had carte Blanche to build a sidewalk. This was completely shot down by the town engineer, and the town administrator, who ran the sessions. So much for public input. It finally came out that they would only accept a sidewalk in the State Rt 25 right of way. Takes too much time to acquire private land, and the sidewalk boosters wanted some quick satisfaction. If it were not for the tie vote in town meeting, we would be walking alongside the trucks on Rt 25, a pathetic solution.

Eric Taussig said...

In a study that the Lakes Region Planning Commission did for the Town back in 2007 related to Route 25 were proposals for parallel access for both roads and walkways at the rear of Old Country Store (Rte 109 North) to a point concurrent with Blake Road.

This is nothing new and those studies and proposals should be resurrected before additional money is expended on the latest proposals.

Please no more wild goose chases said...

The man from DES asked the right question, what do you want Moultonboro to be? What's your vision. Crickets......

The Planning Board sponsored some very good listening sessions last summer. Problem is Carter and the BoS didn't like what they heard. It was stated at one of the sessions Moultonboro will never be a town like Meredith, Wolfeboro, Alton or Center Harbor which are waterfront communities. Our village is not.

Anonymous said...

Walking paths yes, sidewalks no, village green yes, another facility no.

Anonymous said...

I for one would like to see a central facility in our town common. The kids could gather on rainy days, the seniors could have a place to congregate. It would be a reason to come to the village no matter what part of town you live in. I understand we are 4,200 or so people, but no matter how big or small we are a community and should work together for the common good, not shoot down every idea just because it might cost a few bucks. There are some real negative nellies that show up on the videos. I will be happy to pay a little bit more in taxes to create a facility we can all be proud of.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon at 3:24: We are not talking about a few bucks here or even a little bit more in taxes; we are talking about a gym/rec. center that will cost $5 million to build, plus annual costs for staff and maintenance each year. This town does not NEED such a building...some people WANT it, but NEED? I do not think so. Somebody needs to prove that there is real NEED here. We have a declining population, particularly among those who would and could use the facilities....plus we have the ECONOMICS to consider! The economy still stinks for many who would be required to pay for this. We need fiscal restraint, not a drunken spending spree!

Anonymous said...

I don't need a facility to make me proud of our town and please stop labeling people that don't agree with you negative nellies.

Anonymous said...

Whoa Nellie, there are many things in life we don't necessarily need, but if the majority of voters want them, we will get them. A community united for once instead of being divided is priceless. Just because you don;t think we need something doesn't make it everyone's opinion. A community center in the heart of the village would make me proud that the town can actually do something right!

Facts, Please said...

Posted at 7:16. Pure PAPP....Don't know what planet you are on, but the M P update survey from last year has 688 responses, and a 2 to 1 response AGAINST more land or buildings for rec. You can put as much lipstick on the pig as you want, but the numbers of participants are not here in this small town to support it...Meredith is twice our size, they are between a rock and a hard place with theirs, and may welcome forming a joint venture with us.

Stuck on Stupid said...

Whether we need it or not.....spoken like a true Liberal. You're the one that's Priceless! God help us.

Anonymous said...

No need for name calling and insults.....but one thing I find appalling, aside from the fact that no NEED for a gym/rec building has been established, but how do the rest of you feel about 2 TOWN EMPLOYEES sallying forth in pursuit of what THEY want? The TA and Rec. dir. cannot and will not let this go. They need to be reined in SEVERELY,IMO.NO should mean NO!

Anonymous said...

You sure are stuck on stupid. When all else fails call them liberal. That's the best you got? Too sad for words.

Anonymous said...

If the shoe fits wear it or has Liberal been added to the politically incorrect do not utter list?

Anonymous said...

Last I knew ... the largest political group in the US is the moderates. The liberals and right-wingers are both fringe groups. Neither can win an election on their own. Personally, I vote for candidates from both parties.

Citizen Jane said...

Anon at 7:16 said: "A community united for once instead of being divided is priceless."

As far as I can tell the community isn't exactly united on the issue of wanting a gym/community center -- in fact, the most recent surveys have shown the exact opposite.

And: "A community center in the heart of the village would make me proud that the town can actually do something right!"

Given that sentiment is AGAINST a new facility, why, exactly, would building one in town be "right"?

Anonymous said...

You really are stuck on stupid- there is only one poll that counts, town meeting. Overwhelmingly approved going forward with a gym/rec building in 2013 and a site study in 2014.
Case closed. The people did have their say and they want this.

Not so fast said...

Because a small percent (200 voters?) at town meeting voted to proceed with a site study it means the majority of residents support building a gym/community center?.....don't think so.

Anonymous said...

One more time- the only poll that counts is town meeting. The majority of voters present did vote and said yes.

Josh Bartlett said...

A few comments from someone who is willing to have their name on an opinion:
1. If the Lions Club Building is not a Community Center, what is it? Do we need two, or should we sell the Lions Club and build something else?
2. The opinion that the only one poll counts - the one at Town Meeting - is wrong. The voting booth is where it really counts. Your vote for Selectmen in March of 2015 will make your wishes known. This is also where even those who are unable due to employment, physical problems or distance away, can be heard.
3. SB-2, if it is again on the ballot, would be an option to prevent the problems caused by a long, inaccessible Town Meeting. Please get the facts on SB-2 before you rule it out based on rumors and myths.

If you want to have your post have more weight, please post your name. Many people discount the opinion of someone not willing to identify themselves. I would also guess that there would be more civil conversations.

Anonymous said...

At Town Meeting, what the voters approved was a SITE PLAN for a gymnasium. This does not mean that the voters said "GO AHEAD WITH A COMMUNITY CENTER & GYM!"
Somehow, this has morphed into a feasibility study for a gym/rec. center, and this WAS NOT APPROVED by the voters! Am I right, or am I right? I am sure that you will correct me if this is incorrect.

Feasibility? said...

2013 Annual Town Meeting. Article 10 passed

To see if the Town will vote that it is the “Sense of the Meeting” that, as recommended by the Blue Ribbon Commission on Community Services and Facilities, the Town should “... pursue development of a facility that includes an indoor gymnasium, Recreation Department office, program and storage space that would be on existing school land or property adjacent to school facilities.”
(Recommended by Selectmen 4 Yes – 1 No)
(Recommended by Advisory Budget Committee 3 Yes – 2 No)

The " blue Ribbon Commission, just 5 people. Committee disbanded in 2011. Five people's opinion...YESH

SB2 Supporter said...

There is still confusion about SB2 especially the Deliberative Session. Some voters fear a small group will gut Warrant Articles. Would someone with the facts care to comment on this or perhaps the blogger can write an occasional post on SB2 seperating fact from fiction.

If voters were armed with the facts they would understand in this day and age SB2 is a more democratic form of town government.

Site Study said...

2014. Annual Town Meeting Article 13. ( will not cut and paste).
Motion to expend $ 17,500for a Gym/Rec Center, on or ajecent school property, as Reccomended by Blue Ribbon Commission.

The gang of 5 on the BRC sure has us in a difficult position defending us from a request that will be little used. The Town Administrator and the Rec Director see the B R C as a message from god. Why was this committee disbanded in 2011 ?

Who Wants It... said...

Posted at1:39....Now you need to read the earlier post "
Proposed BRC Needs and Feasibility study ". This has the entire menus that the Town Administrator and the Rec Director have cooked up, working arm in arm with the UNH Recreation Experts. The BOS still has an opportunity to turn this sales pitch down, as " unapproiate
For some reason, our T A feels he has the authority to be the orchestra leader for our new gym.....his job definition does not mention that. Hope the BOS reminds him of that. We should not be led down the garden path by an employee on our payroll.

Who's Driving the Bus? said...

The blame for this debacle is all on the Selectmen. They're the ones that give the T A his marching orders.

Here's how I see it. Chris Shipp is all in. Jon Tolman is pressured by the school crowd who were instrumental in electing him....it's for the children. He's up again for re-election. Let's see if he's his own man.

Russ Wakefield said he was against the proposed gym/community center before he was elected to the BoS but has since changed his mind....a big disappointment....another John Kerry? Joel Mudgett is hard to read but tends to vote with the majority.

Our newest Selectman Paul Punturieri is the only member who has expressed the concern that the proposed facility is a want not a need. He is the only Selectman that has shown any curiosity about the usage numbers and asked for facts to jusitfy the need for this 5 million dollar facility.

If you have a concern about the new Taj Mahal contact the Selectmen directly and let them know how you feel.

Anonymous said...

I have said all along that it is appalling that the TA and Rec. dir. have overstepped their authority (my opinion) by trying to push this building through! Need has not been shown, our population is declining, fewer people are registering for programs, the economy still stinks, and this facility keeps showing up every time we turn our backs! The TA and Rec. director need to be reined in by their bosses.....seriously!

Anonymous said...

Who's Driving the Bus has put it very well. Those who represent the voters on the BoS need to put THE GOOD OF ALL IN THE COMMUNITY ABOVE ONE'S PERSONAL AGENDA! Tough to do, but absolutely necessary!

Citizen Jane said...

Josh Bartlett said "if you want your post to have more weight please post your name."

Love ya Josh but what good did having real names attached to that petition to remove the T A last year do??

Exactly. None.

Anonymous said...

You all place blame around very freely. but blame for what? Doing what the voters voted for? Easy to say it was the TA or the selectmen, but your neighbors are the legislative body. You don't like it, you keep throwing our numbers and surveys ad nauseum, but it doesn't change reality. Now I even hear blame on the blue ribbon commission. I recall at the time they were meeting a lot of praise from the community on doing such a good job. You also forget that it was Jon Tolman that was instrumental in defeating the Lions Club fields and the sidewalks last year. Shame that facrts sometimes get in the way of opinion

Anonymous said...

One of the benefits of the sidewalks or pathway is is the health gains of walking. How healthy do you think walking directly along Route 25 inhaling the fumes and brake particulates from the roadway traffic is. Just think how dirty the alloy wheels on cars get from the brake dust. Trucks generate much more. Many states and localities prohibit prolong idling of vehicles for a good reason. The pathway behind the building is the better solution.

Anonymous said...

I seem to recall that the Blue Ribbon Committee recommendation was a bunch of years ago. The school population was declining and the economy was declining.
Today, the school population continues to decline and the economy isn't much better. We have over 200 houses for sale in this town. A recreation facility that will run as a deficit will not help bring working folk to town. Remember the VNA? We finally booted that to the curb after running a deficit of several hundred thousand dollars each year. The Meredith recreation facility is in the RED. Why do some believe we can make it different here?
Too much money. This is a sleepy resort and vacation town. Those that pay the big taxes wont use it. Stop saddling them with your desires. A new facility will create a handful of jobs for the locals and increase taxes for all. Not worth it. The kids can play in the rain like we did. And in dirt fields like we did.

Joe Cormier/jcormier2@myfairpoint.net said...

A study costing $17,500 has been approved ... that's it!

Anyone can lobby for whatever! Doesn't mean it'll get approved.

Town website (public)on the BRC study; documents and notes.


MoBo Capital Improvements Committee page 6 the spreadsheet for 2014-2019; line 58 is the $17,500 we voted on for 2014.

The "eyes" should be on line 56, the construction of the building, not approved, yet, by the town. There's $300,000 "floating" out there from 2017-2019. The "notes" state it is not an estimate, but a just dollar figure to give a heads-up for that planning horizon.

That number could grow to ... who knows ... $100,000 million? We might need a REC. jet airport closer to the Village to bring in some soccer stars (sorry ... no soccer Moms)!


I happen to agree with all three points, above, brought up by Josh Bartlett @ August 3, 2014 at 10:37 AM

RE: SB2 and more info:

Just Google" NH SB 2" and there will be plethora of educated/legal facts, opinions, etc.

My opinion is the real difference between the present town meeting form, and SB 2 is the voting takes place at a later date. Time to get informed before voting, rather than "rubber stamping" some committee's vote. I believe that is a good thing. Also, there would be absentee ballots and more participation; snow birds, those that work on Saturday (I did at times) etc. could now participate and vote.

Of course, those dastardly 200-250 that presently "rule" MoBo, would become those dastardly, that voted at the voting booth or sent in absentee ballots ... Oh S---uger ... there goes the "power" curve.

The argument that the debates at town meeting keep the voters better informed is BS (not the BS degree). The same arguments will be made at the deliberative session ... no difference. Amending articles will be done the same way, at the deliberative session.

The only real difference is the voting is done at a later date, with more time to contemplate the arguments, and the real danger, there might be a power shift from the present power base.

Also, those at the Town Meeting won't be able to see how you voted ... and tell Mommy!

Anonymous said...

How can Moultonboro hope to compete with a town like Meredith. If Meredith's community center is running in the red Moultonboro's will hemorrhage tax dollars.

We need facts and figures on the Meredith CC that should help make the case for or against the proposed new facility in Moultonboro.

Anonymous said...

Those who are pitching this costly thing do not seem to care about facts and figures! It must be nice to be able to spend OPM and not feel a slight pang of conscience! The entire subject is sickening to me at this time. Our town is not growing;therefore we do not need an expensive facility.