"Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments.
Alexander Hamilton

Thursday, January 28, 2016

Exactly the feedback we wanted

Thank you to all who attended tonight's informational session on the proposed community center and especially to those  that offered thoughtful and constructive comments. If you were not able to attend, here is the link to the streaming video of the meeting. (The informational session begins at about 1 hour 51 minutes into the video.)
Next Thursday ( February 4th) at 6:30 pm ( probably at the Academy Community Auditorium) will be the bond public hearing followed by the budget hearing and a BoS business meeting.

24 comments:

Tired Taxpayer said...

O K, you Recieved exactly the feedback you wanted. We followed the rules about what we could talk about. NOW may we have the opportunity to give you our feedback ? The numbers do not support the need for this project. At one time a few years back, Rec ran 23 programs....now, they can only offer nine programs. The kids are curled up with I Pads and are also facing the realality that an education is far more important in this day and age. It's not like the good old days, when it was sports, sports, sports.
You owe us a chance to give you our feedback; give us a clean yes or no question on the warrant at town meeting. No more " vote to study what programs should be offered " while you pour the foundation.

Moultonboro Blogger said...

I would suggest you attend the bond and budget hearing next Thursday as well of course Town meeting. I would also suggest that you check your facts on programs offered and sports participation. As I said yesterday, this is a proposal for a community center for all age groups. There are more than 60 current groups/programs/functions for all age groups that could step in to this facility immediately. No one is stifling opinions, but we did need to get design feedback to arrive at a true cost to build and operate so that voters can make an informed decision. Everyone who spoke yesterday were thoughtful and factual and it was a very good session. Thank you to those that came and contributed.

Town Hall Junkie said...

SIXTY. That is a big Number.......how many of those groups / programs / functions need a gym ? Does Meals On Wheels shoot hoop after lunch ? Blogger, please post a brief list of various functions, and the square footage allocated to them. Please detail Office Space....Storage....gym and locker rooms......Kitchen and Dining room.....Seniors meeting Rooms......large public assembly room....
If taxpayers examine that, they may ask for a half court basketball gym, , or eliminating it entirely, to try to get the space application and cost back into sync with the non-gym needs.
Last time around, we renamed the gym a " community center ". But never increased the inadequate space reserved for seniors. We need some fresh information here.. Linking a gym with a seniors facility, to sell a gym, really presents problems for seniors...big building...long walks....parking distances... Consider the projects separately, the seniors would not spend the money...can not justify the cost versus the time it would be used. Frugal seniors are pleased with the Lion Club building, and know that a few more bucks spent there would make that an ideal meeting place. AND.. The gym alone...participation counts DO NOT justify the cost.
Tie two unsupported needs together...fine...but it still does not make for a " need "

Moultonboro Blogger said...

Again, I suggest that you attend the bond hearing and in the interim, there is additional information at town wall in the lobby. Last nights presentation should be online on the Town website very soon.

Anonymous said...

The January 15, 2016 Notice of Public Hearings for the Community Center Bond Hearing stated that "The full Draft Warrant and Budget will be posted on the Town web site on or before January 26, 2016...". I cannot find it. Why?

Anonymous said...

To Town Hall Junkie - you clearly do not speak for all the seniors in this town. There is a large group of Moultonborough adults and seniors who have requested gym space for winter pickleball. A gym is not for children only. This Community Center provides opportunities for active and passive activities as well as program space for people of all ages, abilities and interests.

Nancy Wright said...

There's lots of opportunity to play winter Pickleball without paying a fee. The Pickleball group's been given permission to play at the Moultonboro Central school, Saturday's from 9-1, this Saturday will be the last session. Starting next week the group will play Wednesday late afternoon/evenings. Laconia Community Center offers play Monday night, Tuesday and Thurday mornings. Tuftonboro elementary school Friday 6:30pm. Alton elementary Wednesday and Friday evenings.

For a fee Meredith Community Center, Tuesday and Friday mornings 9-11 and Thursday evening at 6pm.

Just as the Meredith Community Center charges a fee to play Pickleball so will the proposed Moultonboro, gym/cc.

Jim said...

No mention of LEED Certification of this new building.
Wonder why?

John Marlowe said...

Interesting to hear the impact on the tax rate. If I heard correctly the tax for a house appraised at 300,000 would be in the ballpark of $85. That's about 3 full tanks of gas in my car. Would I pay that for the use of a community center that's open until 9:00 at night? Absolutely!

Moultonboro Blogger said...

You heard correctly. It will actually decrease slightly over the ten year bond term. In addition, every dollar raised by fundraising will offset annual bond payment appropriations.

Annual Increase in Property Tax $300K Home
Year 1 $87.00
Year 2 $84.00
Year 3 $84.00
Year 4 $81.00
Year 5 $81.00
Year 6 $78.00
Year 7 $75.00
Year 8 $75.00
Year 9 $72.00
Year 10 $72.00

Town Hall Junkie said...

Every Dollar .....raised. By fundraising.........ah, we hear that song again. It did NOT work for Lee Pond Land. Why donate, the 800 Lb elephant has big bucks. The 10 % donated fundraising is mentioned in the warrant as a Goal. goals are dreams. If the warrant required the 10% fundrasing, as a hard requirement, I would support this. The entitled Gang needs some skin in the game.

Anonymous said...

"No mention of LEED Certification of this new building.
Wonder why?

January 29, 2016 at 8:41 PM"

Probably more worried about Taylor building, lead, and Super funds!


LEED
http://www.nrdc.org/buildinggreen/leed.asp

EPA
http://www.epa.gov/superfund

Ombudsman ... said...

Figure the tax impact yourself, to your property.
Without getting into weeds, and disregarding offsetting increases because of other things, the Center’s impact on your own tax can be approximated by:

Go to your tax bill, look at the “Assessed Valuation” on the left half of the page. Look at the “Net Value” there. That is the number that is the $300,000 in the blogger’s example. Go to the right side of the page and the total tax for the year is where it says “Total tax”.
So,
Without going into the weeds, the present tax rate is 9.01 If we add .29 cents, lets say to that for the center, then the tax rate goes to 9.30

Multiply your “Assessment”, example, $300,000, by the 9.01 (which is .00901) and that yields a $2,703 tax.

Multiply your “Assessment”, example, $300,000 by the 9.30 (.00930) and that yields a $2,790 tax.

The difference in tax is $87 for the whole year, which you pay in two installments, usually, here in MoBo.

A $100,000 home differs by $29 dollars
A $200,000 home differs by $58.

An annual increase, probably less than you pay for dinner.

Moultonboro Blogger said...

Actual Town Hall it did work for Lees Pond. The vast majority of the funds to pay for the possible purchase would be from private funds.

Anonymous said...

I'm thinking that those traveling all over the lakes region to play Pickleball, are spending more money in gas every year than they would spend on user fees and a few extra $$ in their taxes! Oh, and, it would be right in town- how convenient!

Vladimir said...

More feedback wanted...

The 29th has come and gone.
So what's the feedback on the candidates? Who are they?

Over Taxed Waterfront Owner said...

I bought my house in 1989 for some $270k. It is now assessed for 1,200,000 thanks to Vision Appraisal. I tried to see it last year and listed it for 999,000 and the nearest offer I got that I rejected was $875,000 I am now appealing my assessment - so far not much luck. . Based on the projections, my 10 year cost, if I stay that long will be $3456, if those numbers hold. I can set up a pretty good private gym in my basement for that money and can save a ton of money.

Why do I need a Community Center? I already pay too much in taxes. If the schools really need a third gym, let the Schools who have a declining population make a case for a less expensive gym. We don't need a $6 million boondoggle that all the waterfront people pay for.

Vote No at the Town Meeting if you are a resident and registered to vote.

Old Timer said...

I am very pleased to see the selectmen taking positive action to create a jewel in our declining village. The few extra tax dollars don't bother me a whole much. We have no one place to come together as a town like it used to be when we were much smaller. I see that this is not 1970 it is 2016 and we need to do right for those coming after, young and old. The location is perfect. I say go for it.

Nancy Wright said...

Anonymous 2:58, I'm thinking I don't expect others to pay for my entertainment. I'm also thinking I'd rather drive to play pickleball than be saddled with a 6.5 Million dollar facility that will require more staff and ongoing maintenance.

Anyone who thinks a 20,000 s.f building will cost taxpayers only pennies a day is not living in the real world.

Anonymous said...

$87 annually for a $300,000 home is about 24 cents per day. It drops to 20 cents by year ten. $6-7 dollars per month. That is pennies per day in real world math. Much cheaper than driving 20 miles or more to Laconia and half the cost of just one newspaper subscription. Your argument is not valid or factual, but rather emotional.

Eric Taussig said...

I just spent an hour plus watching the Thursday session as I was out of town last week. While I have yet to make up my mind on the Community Center, several things registered in listening to the presentation. One, the seeming conclusion that somehow a $6 million plus 20,000 square foot center will cost just pennies a day; two, that our prior acquisition of the Lion's Club property and its quonset hut type accommodations will soon become cemetery; three that this Community Center will revitalize the Town center.

There are more issues such as the location being ideal for our two public schools that despite declining enrollments do not have enough gymnasium space, yet I wonder if the new gym will be enough if both schools and various other groups compete for use of the same space.

I also heard that voluntary contributions will reduce the ultimate cost. Then I recalled some years ago when the Town was offered funds to build an indoor pool, the BoS rejected the offer, - yet a pool for seniors would be a very useful benefit that this Center will not provide; yet nothing has been discussed about such an amenity.. Right now the nearest useable public pool is in Laconia.

I then wonder about the location being in the village center with the only access on Blake Road, which is already very busy with two schools and a soon to be built Dollar store, yet no effort to require a left turning lane, on Rte 25. Then also, what will we do with the Taylor property? No one has addressed that issue.

As I said, I am undecided, but very concerned that there are so many unanswered questions and issues not really addressed, beyond what the aesthetics of the building might look like.

One more item not addressed - at least at the meeting - will the building be required to go through the proper zoning and planning process or will the last public hearing be next Thursday?

Moultonboro Blogger said...

To Vladimir- the last I heard on Thursday was that there were nine candidates total and no contested seats.

Rick Heath said...

Fryeburg Maine in 1988 started their recreation dept. as a 501 (c) (3) non profit. Please go the their website and look at their history-- very interesting. They raised private funds to by a 20 acre piece of land and built a recreation facility (covered pavilion and various fields). Now they are $200K short of their goal (not dream) of $1.6 million to build a 17,000 s/f community ctr. ALL WITH PRIVATE FUNDS. Now, with all due respect to those who have yet to declare they are for or against this effort, think about this. Fryeburg's total cost per square foot will be less than $90. Their cost to the taxpayer will be 0. They share their facility, and so therefore its costs, with 6 other area towns. Our cost p/s/f is $215 and that does not include $2 million +/- in site work. The six other towns and Fryeburg make up some 8300 people (twice that of Moultonborough). They too have many non-resident taxpayers, however, they have opted to not burden ANY taxpayers with their goal.
We had the vote on this foolishness back previously and it was a resounding NO.
One other issue, to those of you who may make the argument that it is but a few pennies per day. If the past is any indicator of the future, when this bond is retired the town budget for the following decades will NOT reflect it. It has been and will likely be the practice of Moultonborough (and many small towns) to get a large project that needs a bond, pay off the bond with much hoopla (Yah.. WHOOPIE) then keep the budget the same as when we were paying the bond. It is called bureaucracy building. That clears the way for more and more town toys.
I urge you to vote against this project under the terms it is being presented; exploded from a simple suggestion of the BRC to the country club effort we put down years ago.

Moultonboro Blogger said...

This isn't simply about the cost, the size of the building or how many kids will use it. We are not Fryeburg. We are Moultonboro. It is about our town and what does the legislative body want us to do. We have laid out a plan and course of action.
The bond hearing will be held Thursday at 630pm at the academy and then on to Town meeting.